Episode 28 - Jeremy Deller, 303s and Knitting

Steve sits down with Jeremy Deller to trace the strange, brilliant line from brass bands to acid house. Along the way: the Roland TB‑303, Acid Brass, community music, knitting and why Manchester keeps inventing new ways to hear the old. Listen on Apple Podcasts or YouTube.

Acid brasslines & civic sound

Acid house meets colliery band: how a rave-era bassline culture collided joyfully with brass tradition — and what that says about class, place and collective sound.

People, places & scenes

People & places: from the William Fairey Brass Band to Manchester, plus side roads into Hackney Colliery Band and other modern brass experiments.

Loops, patterns & knitting

Textiles & technique: a detour into making and craft — yes, knitting — as a way of thinking about pattern, repetition and community. Loops are loops, whether they’re stitches or sequences.

Support & extras: For extras and early releases, support the show on Patreon.

Full Transcript

Verbatim transcript from the episode, reflowed for readability. No wording changes have been made.

ello, my name is Steve Pretty. I'm a musician, performer, and composer from London, and welcome to my podcast, Steve Pretty On The Origin of the Pieces.This is the show that helps you to hear, understand, and enjoy music in new ways.Hello, everyone, it's lovely to be back in your musically curious ears again. Thank you for joining me once more. And I hope you enjoyed the last episode we did with Frances Raffel talking about Eurovision.She was our Eurovision entry back in, I think, 1994, something like that. And we had a great chat about Eurovision and musical theater and everything in between. So do go back and check that out.We've got another really fascinating episode today with another absolutely stellar guest. You may have noticed that things are slightly different with the last couple of episodes. And from this point on, I think we're going to move to this new format, if you like, where rather than having three or four different things per show, I'm going to just be talking about one thing per episode.But they're hopefully going to be a little bit more regular, a little bit shorter maybe, but one thing per show. And each episode will be hopefully, there will be as much variety as there has been in the first 25 episodes, where I've had two, three, sometimes four different things going on per episode. There will still be that huge variety of stuff, but spread out over individual episodes, if that makes sense.So yeah, if you're confused about what's going on, that's what's going on. Anyway, today, I am very, very privileged to talk to one of the art world's most celebrated practitioners in the UK, Jeremy Deller. He won the Turner Prize some years ago, and he has put together this, almost 30 years ago, he put together this incredible project called Acid Brass, which is what we're talking about today.So I just want to fill you in a bit with some of the background before I hand over to Jeremy. And that is that Acid Brass was this project which involved a diagram, which he alludes to, where he connects the dots between Acid House, this type of electronic music that became very, very big in the 1990s, and the traditional brass band movement. So he created this diagram, which is really fascinating, how all spiders together, and the different connections that they all have.And then there was a live element as well. A lot of Jeremy's work involves live elements, and the live element for this was where he commissioned a brass band, a traditional British brass band from the North of England called Williams Ferry, fabulous traditional band who I've worked with via Hackney Colliery Band. We did a special for Sky Arts a few years ago, Christmas special, and Williams Ferry did it, and so did we, and it was really, really interesting working with them then.But it's a traditional northern colliery style brass band and Acid House, and there's that marriage between the two. When I started Hackney Colliery Band, it was best part 15 years ago, this project, Acid Brass, was a huge inspiration for us. This idea of taking the tradition of British brass band and doing something new with it, doing something quite radical with it in a way.Although Hackney Colliery Band is in no way a traditional British brass band, in terms of the line up and in terms of our background, we're mainly jazz players or from the rock scene or similar things. It's still got this kind of interesting juxtaposition at its core, I suppose. So it was a big inspiration.So it was a real privilege to meet Jeremy and also to be involved with this project. We're doing it live. It probably will be over by the time you listen to this, but if you catch this in time, it is happening on the 13th of June 2025.We're doing a live version at EartH in Hackney, which is where we launched Hackney Colliery Band's album back in the autumn, which you may remember from back in the autumn. Yeah. Fantastic venue in Hackney.Really good venue for this. It's going to be an absolutely incredible night, but we rehearsed it last week. The whole band got together.A traditional brass band in the UK has got quite an unusual lineup of brass instruments, very different from an orchestra, certainly very different from a jazz big band or any pop-porn sections or anything like that. We might dig into the instrumentation of those in future episodes, but for now it's just worth recapping that these traditional bands evolved around the coal mining areas of the UK, and they were very much community bands, so people would have day jobs, often of course working in the mines or in other local industry, and then they would come together and make music at night. But meanwhile this was happening, the miners' strike and these parts of UK history in the 1980s and early 1990s, that was happening contemporaneously with an explosion of acid house music and raves and this kind of thing.And Jeremy I think was very astute to see these two things as connected in some really interesting ways. So we dig into that quite a lot. So that's the context for our chat.The interview is in two parts, so I'm going to play the first part now and then I'm going to just do a little bit of an explainer between, because I just need to explain a few bits of terminology and that kind of thing. So without further ado, let me hand over to Jeremy Deller backstage at Earth in Hackney. Thanks so much for chatting and we're here doing this amazing project that you came up with 30 years ago.Nearly 30 years ago.Not quite, sorry, not quite 30 years ago.28.And with something like that, it starts presumably from the idea, and I mean, you know, the idea of bringing these two cultures together. I mean, was that an obvious match, those two cultures, or did you consider other things?No, it was the only one I thought of that worked in terms of musically, but also as an idea. If I can be pretentious, conceptually, they both worked, because I knew it would sound great, and it would look great, and it would do something else as well. It would sort of make a comment on history and on music itself.And what was it that, I mean, you talked about the cultural connections, and you know, can we just expand on that a little bit?Well, I think for me, it was about the proximity between the end of the minor strike and the beginning of this movement, as I would call it, a social movement. So for me, it was, those things were very closely connected in my mind even, in my timeline of British history as I saw it, as I lived it in a sense, or witnessed it. Those things were like really close, like a couple of years between.So for me, it was about making a connection between those two big moments, the end of something and then the beginning of something else, and how they may have been connected.Is there a sense in which they're both Acid House and the brass band tradition, a kind of folk music forms?Up to a point. When I say the end of something, I mean the miners' strikes, so the end of manufacturing industry, or the end of the unions' system, basically, the breaking of the mining unions, and the defeat, and what that meant for Britain. But going back to your question, it was a form of communal music-making, or music that's enjoyed communally, makes sense when it's heard in public with people around it.As brass bands do, you often experience them outdoors. A lot of raves happened outdoors. And there's an anonymity, there's an issue, there's a big anonymity to that scene.And this sort of is with brass bands as well. You don't really know who the players are or the conductor, even if it's just the group doing something. And it's often amateurs, all those things.There's a lot of connections in the North of England, all those geographical connections as well. So I just felt it was the melancholy in the music, and the rousing nature of it. All those ideas are sort of swilling around, really.And class is a big part of it as well, right?It's a big part of it, in the sense that it's part of everything you do in Britain. It's always there. And of course it's working class, industrial class, music making.And then, acid house music or electronic music seemed classless. I don't know if it really is or was, but it's definitely was as a scene, like most youth movements would have, you know, if you think about them, they do come from sort of working class environments.And also made on a lot of that stuff made on relatively, as with the brass band in some respects, like relatively inexpensive and accessible gear.Yeah, it was maybe a democratization of music making, but it was much needed in the way that punk was as well, with guitars, this was with computers or with technology. So it was definitely another stage on from punk in terms of giving the means of production to the people.And were you, are you into Acid House yourself? Like, were you going to those raves?I didn't go to big raves. I was very interested in it. I was very curious about it.But most of the things I do, I come to, I come to them too late, but also I'm always on the fringes. So I was observing it and watching it and making connections maybe in my mind. And very early on I thought this is actually going to be, this is really unusual and important.So I'd like to think, identify very early the importance of it. But a bit later I got in to going out a lot, which was great. So I did experience it, but not in those very early sort of 87 to 88, 89 maybe.The very sort of birth of it.Yeah, I was aware of it. And weirdly I was in clubs that was playing it, but I didn't know what it was because they're playing other stuff around it. I would have heard it quite early on actually in clubs in sort of 86, 87.But these were different kinds of clubs. So the sort of mainly gay clubs were playing it, but not in the way though it was played later to a bigger audience.Right, right, right. And yeah, I mean, how much were you aware of the brass band? So like the other side of it?Well, I think, you know, I'm from London, so the brass band isn't something that's sort of in the blood, as it were. But any big public event, any sort of, you know, that you went to, any church face or whatever, or you go to, you know, this weekend it's the Lambeth Country Fair, which I'm going to go to, which is amazing. Anything like that, there's always a brass band somewhere, isn't there?It almost denotes public event. It's like a, it's a route, it's a rock, almost, around which things move. And it's something that, if you've got a brass band there, that means it's this kind of event, and it's a civic, free public event.That's what it means to me when you see that, and it's amateurs, and it's people, local people playing music to other local people, often, at varying skill levels, but it's still something that people do together, and you kind of appreciate that. So, for me, it was always something that I appreciate. And I went, I saw a documentary, and they were using brass band music in it in the 90s, and they were playing cover versions of Queen songs, and there was this amazing version of Bohemian Rhapsody.I remember it really clearly thinking, God, that's amazing. That's actually better than the original. That's sort of sadder than the original is.So, I've always liked steel bands, brass bands. It's funny, isn't it, because they've both got metals with them. And so, for me, it was obvious to work with one.I've always wanted, I like working with musicians. It was the first time I'd worked with a group of musicians. So, I was quite wary, quite worried, talking to them about the kind of music, because it had such a bad reputation.But I just had contemporary electronic music.Nice, right, you didn't specifically mention...No, because...Because it was in the tabloids and stuff, I guess, isn't it?Exactly, but it's the Internet, in a way. So, no one would have gone online and looked up Acid House in 1996 when I approached the band, because there wouldn't have been any. Well, there might have been, who knows?So, but I just thought, I just don't want to sort of muck this up in the first go when I speak to the manager. I'll just say that because it is contemporary electronic music, and see what he says. And he said, we'll give it a go once and see what happens.And here we are.Which is all you want, really. Someone say yes, it's all the power of that word is amazing.Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course. Well, speaking of which, we've got to get back to rehearsal. Yeah, and then we'll talk with part two in a bit.Yeah.All right.Lovely. Thanks. So that first bit of the interview, as I say, was just grabbed during a quick break in the rehearsal.And I managed to sit down with Jeremy for a bit longer afterwards and have a bit more of an in-depth interview with him then. But before I play that second bit of the interview, it's probably just worth explaining some of the things that we talk about, because one of the things we refer to is a 303. Now, this is something called, I think it's Tb-303, by a company called Roland from Japan.This was at the time a relatively cheap synthesizer that was made. I think we talked about it in the interview, but I think it was to accompany musicians playing in hotel lobbies and things, which is quite a funny thing to think about now, because I'm going to play you what it sounds like. Now, I don't have a 303, even though they're originally made to be cheap and affordable for musicians.They're not so affordable now, they go for very high prices because they essentially created an entire genre. They created Acid House. But I do have a virtual 303 on my computer, and that sounds a bit like this.So if I just get this up. By the way, you can watch this as well. There's video of this.If you're on Spotify or YouTube, you can see me playing this, and I'm going to play some clips of the band shortly, and you can see that too. Anyway, this is what it sounds like.So that's a sequence of notes. And you can hear it's got this very squelchy, quite aggressive sound. If you think you can stick a drum beat with that, and essentially you've got acid house.And so you can play it individually as well.It's quite funny to think that this was maybe designed for hotel lobbies. It's quite aggressive.Anyway, so that's the 303, the Tb-303. And again, I find it fascinating how one piece of gear can just create a whole genre. And it's something we'll probably come back to a lot over the coming episodes when we talk about other things like drum machines or synthesizers.Or of course, conventional acoustic instruments as well. They often, it's the creation of a new piece of music technology is what creates a new genre of music or a new way of thinking about music. So it's a thread that runs through a lot of this podcast, that idea.Anyway, we're gonna now, I just wanted to contrast that sound, so that very squelchy, kind of aggressive sound with the sound of traditional brass band. Now, this is from the recording of the Earth rehearsal for Acid Brass last week. So it is ironically playing Acid House, albeit a very mellow intro to Acid House.But you can just really hear how sonically different it is. So here is the band for Acid House playing a bit of mellow Acid House.So then it kicks off a bit. So yeah, so that's the sound of a traditional brass band versus the sound of a 303. Pretty different, pretty different sounds. And I think that's where Jeremy's vision in putting these things together has been so fascinating. So I'm gonna play this interview with Jeremy. Before I do though, just to say that if you are listening to this in time, there are still tickets for Acid Brass at Hackney in Earth, the venue called Earth, fantastic venue.So do roll up for that. There's also a brilliant after party with another electronic music pioneer, a guy called Gerald, which is going to be going on late. So do come and join us to have a little party afterwards.It's gonna be a lot of fun. So yeah, thank you very much for having me along to the Acid House thing. I should actually say it was Jack Jones who runs this brilliant thing called the Listening Project, which is a great contemporary classical music and associated genres kind of night that he puts on in different venues and with different fascinating different projects which I highly highly recommend.So do check out Jack's work with the Listening Project amongst other things. But anyway, I'm gonna hand over to my interview with Jeremy now and then at the end I'm gonna play us out with a piece from that rehearsal that you can hear at this gig if you're listening in time or otherwise. If you do miss the gig, I appreciate this is probably coming out pretty much the day of the gig.So if you miss the gig, do go and check out the record, the original record by Williams Ferry Band, Acid Brass, do go and check that out. Anyway, over to Jeremy.So what is it? It's Acid Brass is what it says it's a brass band playing Acid House music. Having said that, the music isn't strictly Acid House, it's sort of house music, dance music from that time.And what distinguishes house from Acid House?It's basically a piece of technology called a 303. It's just one thing that makes a very specific sound.So that very scratchy bass sound.Very unusual bass sound. It was a, Roland made it to accompany people playing guitar. It was meant to just put out bass lines, but you can do all these things with it.It was a bit unruly, I think, to work with in a traditional setting, in a sort of hotel lobby setting. And it actually was much better used as something that was a kind of wilder sound, really, if it isn't, if it's rhythmic as well as, just not just bass notes, but it's very rhythmic.It really cuts through, doesn't it, as well, the 303? It's got a very particular tone to it, which is sort of funny to think of it accompanying someone playing in a hotel lobby, because it's nice.Yeah, because it's almost got a life of its own when you play one, all these sounds come up and you're really not sure why you're getting it and what you're doing. I mean, I'm not when I do it, but I'm sure it's the case when people got them. They're probably sold off cheap, weren't they?Because they weren't that popular for what they're doing. And so you could pick one up for not much. And when you realize actually this is incredible.I think that's what happened is, and that's yeah, exactly. I mean, now they go for a fortune, but because of Acid House, I guess. But back at the time, I think they were, yeah, they were kind of considered slightly cheap and yeah, like a failed instrument. Yeah.For what it was meant to be used for. But then it gets picked up.Well, I find that endlessly fascinating with music, where genres are basically borne out of bits of technology. And often those bits of technology are to do with constraints. They can do to do with, oh, it was the cheapest thing we could find.Or is, I mean, so much of that is like even in the 80s, the a lot of the pop that was coming out of this country, or I suppose even in the 60s, was us trying to imitate soul music, American soul music.Yeah. So you end up with something like Joe Meek in his studio, recreating the wall of sound. Exactly.Sort of flat on the Holloway Road.Yeah, exactly. So you are an artist, obviously, but so what was it that initially brought you to this project in your practice?Well, it was the idea, obviously.But it was that idea of making working musicians, but also making a point about something, about history, but in an enjoyable way. And a sort of slightly absurd way as well. I like the absurdity of it and the humour within it.So that was very important.And so, yeah, because it feels like, it feels like a bit of a political piece as well in a...Well, it's the diagram, obviously. The diagram is really important. It goes with it called the history of the world, and it was basically trying to connect these two movements and how they connected is musically, socially, politically, geographically, and so that anthropologically almost.So that was really important. The diagram came into my head when the idea happened. It was fully formed, really.The diagram is fully formed in your head?Yeah.How interesting.That came before the performance. That I wrote out before a note had been performed.Right, right, right, right. And how did you reach out? Did you choose ferries at random?It's pre-internet. Well, for me, it's definitely pre-internet. It's pre-email even.And I rang Brass Band World.Did you?It was a rather staid magazine.Yes.And I spoke to the editor and I said, I'm looking for a band that's up for doing something a bit different. He said, I'll ring ferries because the manager there might be up for it.Right, right, right, right.And so I rang them and said, like I said, contemporary electronic music. A performance in Liverpool, had a date and I said, yeah, all right, you need an arranger, we have an arranger, so he did it. I had one rehearsal and then they did it.Oh, is that right?Yeah.So like we're doing here, one person.It's all very quick, yeah. Right, right, right, right. Interesting.Phil Drummond came with me from the KLF to see, he was interested in it. So they had a bit of a celeb almost in the room.That's great.I think he came to the rehearsal. He came at one point. I know he came at one point.That's cool.So he took a lot of interest in it.Was there much resistance from the band or from, I mean, you said that you recommended them as a kind of, some people who might be up for doing something unusual, but that world can be quite conventional and traditional.Quite conservative world, I think. It's very competitive. But if you've got the right manager, someone who's got a bit of ambition for the band, then you get these opportunities.Obviously, with a lot of bands, the manager would have said, no, thank you. We've got a carol concert to do or whatever it is. But John said, yeah, let's just see.So it's really about the manager, because they sort of dictate, I think, really who does what and they respected him. And so it was a really easy relationship doing it. It was so straightforward.And it really taught me a lot that working with the public and with people, groups of people, musicians or whatever, it's actually not that difficult if you approach them with the right idea at the right time.Yeah, I guess it's going and feeling sort of open to collaboration essentially.Exactly, because I can't play an instrument. I can just about read music, sort of. But I knew what I wanted.I was very clear about what I wanted. So for me, it was really important to get it right. But it was 80% them.Well, it's interesting. We've just been rehearsing this afternoon, headed the show. And when you're here this afternoon, again, it's clear that you've got a very definite idea what you want.But I guess it's all a part of the collaboration with the original ranger and Kai who's...Yes. And we did a performance before and we changed the scores quite a bit because there's a lot of sort of dropouts in them and strange anomalies. So we've done a bit of smoothing out before.That happened last year, I think, whenever it was, the performance last year. So the scores are in a better shape than they were. For some reason, there's some strange sort of things that happened to them.I don't know what, glitches almost. So we did quite a lot of work on it already. So today, for me, it was really about the percussion.And I can't bear to see percussionists just standing around. When the band's playing, someone's just standing. It's like everyone should be playing, really.That's my view.Well, it's very interesting. So a lot of the band today come, I suppose, come from more of that classical, traditional brass banding world. That's not really my background.You know, I'm more of a jazz player. So I'm sort of slightly out on the limb. But what's really interesting about it is, especially from a percussion point of view, like if, because this world, you know, is so much about reading the parts and the dots, it's an interesting kind of contrast between, like what I would think of as more of a kind of groove-based music.So, you know, jazz, rock, hip-hop, anything, where the dots, the rhythm music is a kind of guide, but is not.Exactly. It's just in case you need it. So there was some moments today when there were solos, and afterwards I went up to the players and said, look, just don't look at the music.You should just be enjoying it, doing something, freaking out a bit. That's why I look at it.But I suppose what that speaks to is, it's like a bigger contrast between those things, right? Because Acid House is in some sense a kind of punk aesthetic, isn't it?In terms of production, yeah.I mean, not in terms of the sonics, but in terms of the way it's approached, it's sort of done with these cheap things, it's done on a shoestring, not worrying about conventional music theory.Yeah, and bypassing the industry as well, which is interesting, music industry, doing it, it's a do-it-yourself thing, making a tape, then playing it out or whatever. So, also the harshness of the sound, they're quite crude sounding, some of them, so that's a sort of punky thing as well, but yeah, it's just going along with that in a way and just, you know, if you're playing dance music effectively, so you've, the percussion have a quite big role to play in that, obviously, to sort of get people excited.I'm really interested in the different roles that music has and the different sort of functions, if you like, because I think it can do so many different things. And one of the things that strikes me that's really interesting about this project is that it's playing with those roles in quite a particular way because a convention, where brass bands were at, certainly when you approached ferries was not, I mean, I suppose they sometimes would play for dancing, but it's much more, there's a sort of sit-down concert, bandstand kind of thing.It's sedentary, I would say. I mean, the bands march occasionally, don't they?Yes, that's true.Friday is the big one, but there is a marching tradition, but that's not dancing, it's movement at least. But yeah, a brass band concert is meant to be quite sort of almost soporific in some places or some ways where this isn't.Yeah, exactly. And whereas Acid House is about movement, is about dancing, is about...Absolutely opposite.Exactly.Also, I mean, I've told this story a million times, but the first time I saw Fairies play, the second time I saw them play was in Birmingham, this beautiful concert hall. And I was watching the play, and there was, literally in the front row, there was someone doing their knitting. An old lady doing their knitting.And I just thought, wow, that's pretty intense. To look at that, to be a young player, and that's on the front row.Yeah, someone's knitting on the front row. It's hardly rock and roll, is it? So I just thought, well, I can do better than that. I'd like to think I can do better than that.But having said that, the first performance they did at Lipper was about half full, and I think most of the people went there not knowing what it was, and a lot probably went there thinking, guys, this is just a piss take, and it's going to be like a laugh. And the band walked on, and they shuffled on. I mean, they looked so embarrassed to walk on because they had no idea what was going to happen to them.And they were really embarrassed. But then as soon as they played the first song, you could tell everyone was like, wow, this is amazing. I mean, it sounds great.And it totally changed the atmosphere, and people were cheering off the first track. And then they all sort of sat down and just thought, oh, it's not a set up. This is a real thing.So that was good.So do you think that there was some suspicion amongst some of the band that it was a sort of piss tape, it was sort of a prank?Well, something. It was just, I think it's just looking at a young audience, which they've probably never seen before, who were sort of quizzical and thought, you know, they're wearing their uniforms. So they probably got a bit of sort of smiling or laughter when they came onto these uniforms.And so they were probably slightly concerned that this wasn't, these are two worlds that were not going to get on. But we had Tony Wilson, actually, which is not what I've spoken about so much, from Factory Records. He was the emcee and he was-Who was he?Yeah, and he sort of spoke about every track and was like very interesting to talk about, industry and leisure. We ended in industry in the beginning of leisure, industry and all that. So he gave it a really great context.That is, yeah, because that context is quite important, I think, isn't it, to the piece, to sort of explaining. Because, I mean, it exists in its own right, but like that little bit of that context really helps.It maybe needed it then, maybe less now, I don't know. I mean, we're not doing that again. Obviously, Tony Wilson is long gone, but I've told the conductor whose name I've forgotten.Kye.Kye. But he should have a microphone and he should say hello and just communicate with the audience, I think it's really important.Absolutely, yeah, I'm a great believer in that.But making that connection is really important, so he's going to do that.Yeah, I mean, it's something with the Hackney Colliery Band, which was partly inspired by this and New Orleans bands and the kind of contrast between. So it's sort of looking at the New Orleans bands and thinking, I want to do a British version of that and not just a kind of pale imitation of New Orleans. You know, sort of think about the British brass tradition and try and inject some of the spirit of New Orleans without directly just copying, you know, that stuff.Yeah, that's stiche.Exactly, yeah, that's why we've ended up doing Prodigy tunes and it's all original stuff these days, but yeah. But with that in mind, like when we've done, we've actually had an interesting thing the other way around than you were just talking about with the Lippert Concert where we get people sometimes, depending on where we're playing, like we did a gig in Windsor last year, Windsor Festival, and I think probably about a third of the audience thought we were a traditional Colliery band that they booked for. So they turned up expecting that.With a hat hack and then give it to them.Yeah, or indeed any sort of reading the blurb or Googling or anything would. But we start off our set with, I play through a load of pedals and it all gets a bit freaky deaky to start with.Are you sat?No, no, God, no, no, no, no. Sort of jumping around and with, I play through guitar pedals and it would make a big wall of sound to start the show. And then we're off doing, yeah, essentially kind of dance music.Right.Yeah, and so you can see people, it's sort of the, it's like they were expecting to be able to do their knitting.Yeah.And then they're slightly shocked to that.That's what, yeah, it's not surprising actually, if you think about it.Yeah. But it, but it's, I think it's, it's, it's almost speaks to the same thing. It's like different role, roles that music can play and like what, you know, if you're turning up expecting one thing, it can be a bit of a shock to the system to have the opposite in either direction, I think, you know.Anyway, we're not going to, keep you much further. I was just going to ask one thing, which is something I ask all my guests on the show, which is what's the point of music?What's the point of it? Well, it's a kind of formal communication, isn't it? I think that's without having to use words.In its purest sense. I mean, obviously, if you're singing a song, you're using words or a choir or whatever. I think it's to communicate with other human beings.You know, if you're playing in the same group as them or band or whatever, but also people out there. It's a way of talking to people.It's a different mode of communication.On a higher level, maybe.Or on a more direct level.Spiritual or something. I don't know. It's to make connections.It's to make connections.It's sort of unmitigated by language, like by words.Yeah, it kind of brings people together. It's a space. It's a good space to meet people and be around people.And in terms of your art, music obviously played a role in this piece. Does it play a role in your other work?Lots of my work has music within it. I've worked with lots of other steel bands. I've made films about, a couple of films about music.I've made pop videos. I've done all sorts of things. It's always going to be there. Yeah, that's interesting. And is it relatively unusual for the art world to be working sort of directly with music?I don't know. I've lost touch with the art world, to be honest. I'm sure everyone wants to work with music, don't they?Because all artists are frustrated musicians and musicians are frustrated artists. I think there's a, it's an exaggeration, but...No, it's true.I know a lot of musicians went to art college.Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, listen, thanks so much. And this is going to be a really fun show.And thanks for the amazing project.Okay, just gonna fade this down. So that is Acid Brass in rehearsal last week. I think you'll agree, a sound like no other, really, a really unusual combination of, yeah, Acid House and Brass Band.Gonna round things off, I think, by playing this out, but just a huge thank you once again to Jeremy Deller and to Jack Jones and everyone involved with the Acid Brass, all the fantastic musicians you can hopefully hear if you get tickets in time. But meanwhile, thank you so much for listening. I'm hopefully, as I say, gonna be back a little bit sooner in these more bite-size chunks, so do stay tuned.Meanwhile, there's gonna be lots of footage from rehearsals and from the gig up on my Patreon, so if you wanna check out a bit more of this Acid Brass stuff, do go and sign up for Patreon. I'm aware of Patreons that I've been a little bit neglectful of you guys recently, so apologies for that, but lots more stuff coming your way very soon. Meanwhile, do sign up for the mailing list, that's completely free, loads of stuff coming up on there, and thank you to everyone involved, and I will be back in your musically curious ears very soon.See you later, bye!