Episode 22 — Rock n roll defibrillators, bierhall melodies and tech trance
This one stitches together three musical ecosystems. Steve starts with Defibfest, a DIY rock ’n’ roll fundraiser using bands, raffles and live defibrillator demos to fund public access defibrillators. Then it’s over to Munich’s Hofbräuhaus to explore mellow brass, harp and Bavarian beerhall traditions with bandleader Wolfgang King, before landing in Berlin to pick apart Tech Trance: kicks, sidechaining, saws, pads and a Prosit-fuelled drop.
Underneath it all: how communities use volume, ritual and repetition — in rock bars, beer halls and clubs — to save lives, build culture and blow the roof off in very different ways.
What we cover
Defibfest: Public access defibs powered by loud guitars and good will.
Bierhall brass: Rotary flugelhorns, valve trombone, harp, tuba and the art of being present but not deafening.
Prosit: Call-and-response drinking song as communal technology.
Tech Trance: Four-to-the-floor, sidechain pump, saw leads, pads and the architecture of the drop.
Live techno jams: Modular synths and machines treated like an improvising band.
Further listening & links
Full Transcript
Verbatim transcript, reflowed for readability. No wording changes have been made.
Hello, my name is Steve Pretty. I'm a musician, composer, and performer from London. And welcome to my podcast, Steve Pretty On The Origin of the Pieces.This is the show that helps you to hear, understand, and enjoy music in new ways.Hello, everyone, it's lovely to be back in your ears. Once again, a little bit of a delay since the last episode, and that's becoming a bit of a refrain, I know, in recent episodes as a variety of reasons which I've been through in the past, mainly around being busy, but this time also I had a bit of computer failure, which is just a nightmare because obviously as a freelancer, you don't have the infrastructure of an organization and an IT department to call up when something goes wrong. I have backup computers and things that I can work on if need be, but it just means that everything takes longer.So I've had to do a complete reinstall of everything on my computer and all of that. So yeah, things have been a little bit stressful on that front, but a lovely few weeks work and playing and music making for me. I've been doing some really nice traveling, which I'll talk more about over the coming weeks.Hope you're doing really well. I've met a few of you guys around and about in the last few weeks, and it's been really nice catching up on what you enjoy about the show, what you think can be tweaked, and all of that business. So yeah, thank you very much for that feedback.As always, do keep the feedback coming, and as always, if you're enjoying the show, please do review it, please do subscribe to it, and most importantly of all, spread the word to your friends and family. Word of mouth is incredibly important to shows like this. We've also got a few new members on Patreon.It's lovely to see some new people there. So on the last episode, I spoke to a fantastic musician, originally from Syria, but now based in Norway, by the name of Nawar Al-Nadaf, and we talked about the Oud, we talked about the Ney, the flute, the sort of side-blown flute. If you pop to the Patreon, you can see me attempting to play the Ney quite badly from out of the corner of my mouth.I really enjoyed chatting to Nawar, and again, I've had a lot of lovely feedback about that interview and how interesting it was to learn about these instruments from the Middle East. And of course, I spoke to Luke, Ollie, and Ed from Hackney Colliery Band on the last episode. And our launch gig at Earth was really fun.It was the most epic show we've ever done with Hackney Colliery Band. Well over two hours of music straight through. It was a long one, but a really fun one.So thank you so much if you came down. I met a few podcast listeners there. So thank you if you came and said hello.It was lovely to meet you and hope to meet more of you soon. Speaking of which, I have this big show coming up at Wilton's Music Hall. It's on the 30th of November.I'm going to get a plug in early because I'm going to announce the guest to you right now. It's frankly an insanely good line up. First up we have Guy Pratt.Now if you don't know Guy's name, you will certainly have heard his bass playing because he is a bass player with pretty much unrivaled CV as far as I can tell. He has played bass for Madonna, Michael Jackson. He's currently on tour with David Gilmore.He's the bass player for Pink Floyd. He's got an absolutely astonishing CV. He's also a really great storyteller.He's done his own comedy show. He's produced a great book about some of the anecdotes he's had from his work over the years. He has a smash hit podcast of his own with Gary Kemp called Rock On Tours.So I really suggest you check that out as well. As well as Guy Pratt, we've also got Robin Ince along. Now if you don't know Robin, where do I start with Robin?He's been a very long time friend and inspiration for me. He does a radio show with Brian Cox called The Infinite Monkey Cage. He's been an absolute pioneer in all sorts of ways, pioneering these amazing nights which combine music and comedy and science and literature and storytelling and all manner of incredible things.It's through Robin that I've had the chance over the years to work with people like The Cure. There's a video I've just put out on my social media, which is me playing Lovecats, my arrangement of Lovecats with Robert Smith from The Cure. Of course, I've just released a fantastic new album, you must check it out.It's all thanks to Robin, those sorts of shows. I've worked with astronauts. I've met Chris Lindtott, who I have this occasional double act with, who's been on this show, of course.I've really got Robin to thank for all of that stuff. Robin Ince will be on the show. He's also got an incredible brain when it comes to all things, but especially music.Guy Pratt, Robin Ince, and finally Theon Cross. Now, Theon has done something which I think I would have thought impossible when I was a teenager. He has made the tuba cool, extremely cool.He's got his own project, which has been enormously successful. He was a part of the band Sons Of Kemet. For a long time, he toured the world with that band.So many other projects he's done, amazing collaborations, and all sorts of incredible stuff. So yeah, we're going to have a bit of a bass special with Theon on tuba and Guy Pratt on electric bass, who are both absolutely brilliant in their own different ways. And of course Robin, and he and I are going to be premiering some new work we've been doing together, as well as talking about his encyclopedic brain.Anyway, so that's the 30th of November at Wilton's Music Hall. There is a code, as I say, for listeners of this podcast. It's Steve Pretty F, Steve Pretty F, all one word, all uppercase.And that will get you best available seats in the house for £15. There's going to be loads of live music, loads of fascinating conversation. And I'm planning a couple more little surprises.If you came to the last one, you know, one of the surprises was a choir emerging from the audience. This one, it's not going to be that. It's going to be something different, but it's going to be no less brilliant and no less interesting and surprising, I hope.So yeah, that's the 30th of November. Do come to that if you're in London, if you can get down to the show. It's going to be really fun.If you can't get to that one, there's another one coming in January, January the 16th, which is also on sale right now. So you can pick up tickets for those live shows. Right, plug over.On last episode, I mentioned that I wasn't doing a Genre Tombola, which is where I take a randomly chosen genre and pick it apart and maybe try and make some music in it, talk to people from that genre. And I didn't do that last time because I had a lot of stuff to get through with Hackney Colliery Band and Noir. But this time I'm doing a kind of almost double Genre Tombola because I've got a bit of a German special this episode.It is still just about October. The intention behind this episode was to make it a bit of a German theme to celebrate Oktoberfest. And that is of course essentially the drinking festival that happens in Germany in October.But now increasingly around the world. Part of the reason I wanted to do that was I had a couple of Oktoberfest gigs as a brass player, as a trumpet player. It's a busy time of year for those sorts of gigs.I have to say they're not gigs that I do loads of and I'm quite happy with that. But I do a few of them. They're quite fun but obviously they're very boozy affairs.I was busy drinking Liter Steins of Beer whilst playing and encouraging other people to drink heavily too. Which is, you know, I feel slightly conflicted about. But they can be fun and there is a really interesting tradition behind it.Which is what I'm going to dig into a little bit today. That tradition behind the Oktoberfest drinking Bonanza. Because I was in Munich back in, I think it was July, and I thought I would go to the beer halls there and try and learn a bit about the German beer hall music culture.There's a very interesting tradition of these bands that play in these great traditional beer halls. And I wanted to sort of dig into that a bit, especially as someone who does dabble with Oktoberfest gigs myself, as I say, wanted to see how connected they are to that traditional German style of music in beer halls. And I learned, essentially, not really at all, at least not according to the musicians that I spoke to.So, yeah, I talked to Wolfgang King over in Munich. And then towards the end of the episode, I look at Tech Trance, inspired by a visit to Berlin a few weeks ago. I was working over in Berlin and Tech Trance was a genre that was chosen for me.I think back at Olso Festival in July when I revealed the genre live, I picked it live in front of an audience and Tech Trance was what was chosen. So I took my opportunity in Berlin to learn a bit about Techno and Trance and how they cross over. So there's going to be a bit of a Tech Trance track towards the end of the show.But first, before we head over to Germany, I'm gonna talk about an event that's happening in London. Now, it's this Saturday, which I appreciate is quite soon after this episode is released. It's the 2nd of November.I appreciate that date may have gone by the time you listen to this. Again, this is supposed to be out a long time ago, this episode, but, you know, computers and time and all the rest of it. So anyway, if you've missed that event, don't worry.You can still donate to this fantastic cause. Go to defibfest.com. I'm gonna throw over to my friend Ian Russell, who is the founder of Defibfest.He's gonna talk a little bit about why this amazing musical event is happening, what it's all in aid of, and yeah, a bit more about Defibfest. So this is Ian Russell talking about Defibfest this Saturday, the 2nd of November.I'm Ian Russell.I'm the founder of Defibfest, one of the performers and one of the directors as well.And Defibfest, what is that?So Defibfest, the aim is to raise money for and awareness of public access Defibrillators through the power of music. Public access Defibrillators are ones that are outside buildings that can be accessed 24-7 rather than ones that go inside. So they're always there should someone need them.What made you want to raise money for Defibrillators in the first place?So back in 2018, my dad unexpectedly had a heart attack while we were on holiday in the US. We got a call from my mum saying it had happened, a complete shock. So we rushed back and by the time we got up to knock, he was in intensive care in the hospital there.We found out that he basically collapsed walking on the way home from the shops with his morning paperwork he did every single day. Fortunately, there was public access to defibrillators literally across the road, 20 steps away. Very fortunately, two off-duty police officers were passing.They knew the defibrillator was there. They knew how to use it and they used it on my dad to try to help save him. Unfortunately, it didn't ultimately save him, but it gave him more of a fighting chance.And in our situation, it meant that he was able to keep going enough that he could get to the hospital to be in intensive care. He didn't come around again, so we weren't able to have a conversation with him, but we were able to see him. I don't know why, but I think literally the day he passed, I texted everyone, you included, and just said, I want to do DFID Fest, to raise money for defibrillators through music.And everyone just straight away said, yes. It wasn't like, oh, we need to think about this. It was just like, yes, 100 percent.And that really fired me up to want to do something. So we held the first DFID Fest back in 2019. We raised about 3000 pounds, which allowed us to buy two public access defibrillators.One was installed at a pub in Putney, in South West London, another in Barnes, also in South West London. It felt like a great thing to have done and an amazing achievement. Almost a year later, I had an email from London Ambulance Service on a Saturday morning, I think, saying that the defibrillator was used yesterday and we think it helps save someone's life, which was absolutely amazing.We just don't really think that these things are actually going to be used. After a strange chain of connections, we were in contact with the person who's life the defibrillator saved. And we met them, we talked about defibrillators.You can imagine it was just an unreal experience. I think that fired us up even more to carry on with Defib Fest. After the pandemic, we did another Defib Fest and the person whose life the defibrillator saved came along and gave the most incredible speech about why what we're doing is so important and how it helped her and her family.Her family still has her there. They haven't gone through what we went through. That's amazing.And I think that's just fired us up to keep going.In terms of what it is, we've talked a lot about how brilliant the cause is and why raising that money and that terrible loss. But it's incredible that you've turned it into this really positive thing. I just want to tell people a little bit about your background and why you chose to put on a music festival and what actually happens at the event itself.Yeah, so I've always been in bands since I was about 15. I think you and I have been in maybe two, three together.You're known amongst our kind of group of old uni friends still to this day as The Fire.Yeah, from playing together.From a band, if you're playing together, called The Fire.Yeah, some people don't even know I've got a real name. I've always played in bands. Music's always been my passion.It's been everything for me. I don't know, it's just the first thing I thought of, something to do with music around this. To be honest, I just didn't give that much thought to it.It just happened and it was like, okay, let's do it. I think one of the things that made a massive difference, having so many musical friends who were all just instantly supportive of this. But music was just like, it was just the natural thing to do.In terms of the event itself, we have an afternoon and evening where we hire a small venue in Central London, a small intimate rock and roll venue. We get bands and friends together to honestly have fun and have a good time, enjoy the music, nice opportunity to get together with friends, play a bit of music together. There's a very serious mission behind it.It's a mix of music, first aid where we can, an amazing raffle. We're raising awareness around defibs, just trying to have a nice occasion instead of focusing too much on something that's really sad.It's always a really fun event. Is this the third one now then? Is that right?Yeah, that's right. One of the things I love about it, as a lover of, as I do try and do with the podcast is smash things together that don't always necessarily sit side by side. And you certainly do that on this festival because you have, as well as having a raffle, which is an unusual thing, a rock gig, you also have a live defibrillator demonstration, which is amazing.He's like the biggest hit of the night in my memory. Yeah, it's true.My good friend Imran from Uni has been amazing and he adds a sense of humor and fun to first aid. He's brilliant because it could be quite dry and not that engaging, but he's phenomenal. We have a few limitations this year around the venue just because of the size.It's quite an intimate venue. We might not be able to do as much hands-on demoing as before, but Imran will be there again. He's hoping to share some words on what we're doing and first aid generally. But yeah, you're right. I guess I never thought that how much of a rock and roll thing is a raffle. There are some awesome riders, like we've got acoustic guitars, we've got all sorts of things.The music is really mixed, right? It's a real mix of stuff. So I know that you are a big skate punk fan.So there's some skate punk there. There's a lot of rock bands. So you and I play in a band called Ubermaneuver, which does what it says in the label.Last time I think there was a sitar.Yeah, there was a sitar, which is absolutely amazing by my good friend Anand, who was incredible. It's a really mesmerizing and captivating instrument. We've had Acoustic Piano, Acoustic Guitar, Rage Against Machine Covers, Hardcore Music, Indie Covers.It's a bit like the podcast in terms of its variety. A lot of bass is covered.I think it keeps it interesting and what you experience changes year on year. It's not been the same bands every year. Yes, there's been some bands in common, but this year there are I think three, possibly four new acts that haven't performed before, which is amazing.Yeah, it's a really lovely event. Do you want to talk about the details, the date and time and all that business?DFib Fest this year is on the 2nd of November at Slim Jim's in Islington. It's always open at 4 o'clock and it will go on until probably 11 for live music. And then one of our friends Ed Hartwell is doing a DJ set afterwards, so you can expect Indian rock classics there.If you want to get tickets, you can get them from dfibfest.com. They're available for £10 plus a booking fee. Every single penny we raise through donations, ticket sales, raffle, goes towards buying dfibrelators.So we do have admin costs of running dfibfest, but my sister and I pay for all of that ourselves out of our own pockets. Sometimes when you're donating, you don't know exactly what is happening to that money. But one of the things I'm really proud of with dfibfest is being able to say that every single penny that's raised goes towards dfibs.How many dfibs have you managed to buy off the back of this festival so far?It was seven. As of today, it's eight.Really? One more today?Yeah, we've raised one today. So over the last two years since we did the last dfib, we've raised almost £1,500 in donations, including some donations for this year. There's an amazing government grant at the minute called dfib grant.The website is dfibgrant.co.uk. And the government is part funding dfibrelators, which is brilliant. Normally we'd spend about £1,200 on the dfibrillator and cabinet.But through the grant, we've been able to buy them for £750, which is amazing. It's almost half price. We've been able to take advantage of that with some money we've had in reserve for dfib, a venue that has been incredibly enthusiastic and supportive about it.I think we first spoke to them about it last week. We moved really quickly. Everything's happened and we've got another dfib out there. So that's eight now.That's fantastic. Congratulations.It's very close to our nine as well. Almost ready to push a bus in, but got to work out some insurance details, I think. So rock and roll.Man, what an achievement to get eight dfibs out on the road already. And again, it's worth people spending some time training up on how to use them as well at the festival or anywhere else online or in person at an event.Two things that I've learned, you know, dfibfest doesn't give advice on dfibs. We're not qualified to do that. But two things that I've learned from being at these events and discussions with London Ambulance Service, the first thing is if there is an emergency, call 999, they will tell you what to do.They'll tell you where the nearest dfib is. If there is one, they'll send someone to help you. They will talk you through exactly what to do.So, you don't need to feel like, you need to know what you're doing. Call 999, they will tell you what to do. And you just follow their instructions.Public Access Diffibrillators tell you what to do as well. They literally say, put this here, move away because there's going to be a shock. Move away, you haven't put this here quite correctly.So again, you're following instructions. But also, and this is a point that the lady who spoke at DFIB Fest really emphasised, just do something. You can't really do anything worse than doing nothing.Several of her ribs were broken in the process. Obviously, you don't set out to do that, but it can happen. But she's here now.I think it's important to know that emergency services are there to help you. DFIBs help you as much as they can, and help really can save someone's life.What an amazing thing to use music to create such good in the world, especially after such a tragic event. I'm really looking forward to it. I'm going to be there.It should be really fun. We're going to have to get you back on at some stage, because you also have a really interesting job as I mentioned earlier, a patent lawyer, you're a patent lawyer. But you specialize in music, right?Music patents. Yeah, exactly.Music tech. All sorts of things. I work with music tech companies, getting patents for all sorts of things.Any sort of area where there's music technology from hardware and amplifiers, generative AI, apps that do all sorts of amazing things. So for me, it's a hugely interesting area because I get to combine my passion for patents with my passion for music.That's great. It's an unusual combination.I don't know how rock and roll it is.No, it's great. Yeah, as a big music tech lover myself, I feel like we've got lots to catch up on since I've seen you for ages. Yeah.Anyway, I'll let you go back to the world of music patents and organizing festivals. I'll see you in a few days.Sounds good, Steve. Looking forward to practice and then playing together at the FibFest.Nice one, man. Awesome.Take care. Cheers. My thanks to Ian.Do check out the fibfest.com. If you're available on the 2nd of November, please do come along to Slim Jim's in Islington. It's going to be a lot of fun, a lot of loud rock music and a raffle and a defibrillator demonstration all for an amazing cause.I'll be there playing and hanging out and generally trying to raise some money for this great cause. So maybe see you there. So as I mentioned back in July, I was in Munich in Bavaria and I thought I'd better go and check out the beer halls, you know, when in Rome and all that.Well, actually when in Rome, don't check out the beer halls. I would recommend checking out the Colosseum, for example. Anyway, when in Munich, check out the beer halls because they are quite something.They're these amazing historic rooms. Obviously, they're about drinking, but they're about much more than that. They're about community and they're about music and business even.Much like I've talked about in previous episodes when I've waxed lyrical about the tradition of pub music in the UK and how important that is for the live music scene here. I'm not sure it's quite the same in Germany in the sense that the live music scene isn't necessarily built off these beer halls, as far as I'm aware, but there is a really interesting and quite ancient tradition behind this association between music and drinking and business. Once I got my order of a large stein of dunkel beer, of dark beer in, which was absolutely delicious, I sat and listened to the band who were playing, and there's music on pretty much all day and night, as far as I can tell in these venues.The bands, I have to say, it surprised me how, I guess, for want of a better term, un-bombastic these bands were. They were brass instruments, but played in quite a mellow way, and also, very surprisingly to me, harp was a feature of this band who I saw and then interviewed. And also, accordion features quite a lot, which I guess was maybe a bit more expected.But yeah, harp, brass instruments, accordion, and quite mellow in the background. Anyway, here's a little taste of what they sound like, and do listen out for that harp.People are dancing, there might be a waltz they're playing, a little bit of gentle swaying that people are doing, but mainly it functions as a kind of background music, a very enjoyable atmosphere to eat and drink and do business and be merry. And after the gig, I wanted to have a chat with the band, and their leader was very gracious and gave up some time, and of course, in a second language, to talk to me about some of the history behind it, some of the different functions that the music has, and its part in Bavarian culture. So, this is me outside the Hofbräu House in Munich, talking to Wolfgang King.My name is Wolfgang King. I'm playing the trombone in our group, and our group is called, very traditionally, their name, Fraustdorfer Tanzelmusik. We are playing roughly about 50 years now.Two of the guys you have seen already, they started more than 50 years ago with us. The two guys are in the age of 85 years.It's incredible. You can see in a place like this, so much history with these musicians having played for 50 years. Can you tell me about the history of the Beer Hall here, and the music that goes with it?Yes, a little bit. That was a new, is the Hofbär house. Originally it was built up due to, how to say, to an act from the Varian King, means that some 100 years ago there was a law that it was only allowed to give beers to all the inhabitants on very special areas.And in this area is also Texas apply. And that's the reason more or less that some 100 years ago the Rufbehaus was built up. It had an area where all the inhabitants from the Varian Kingdom can buy the beer.I see, I see.And this more or less is the reason.And has the music been there from the start?No, no. In the start, there was an original beer hall but without music. Also in some decades, music and to have a lot of fun was also forbidden.Then another king came and then it was allowed. Then the next king said, oh, it's not that what I would like to have for 150 years. I think now everything is allowed, more or less, traditional music.What we are playing is due to the regulations, which come from the current management from the beer hall in Hofrehaus.The music you're playing, who writes this music? Who composes this music?A lot of the titles we are playing, we wrote by our own. We wrote it to the, how to say, to the guys who are playing in our six-man group, so it fits very best. And some of the titles, we buy it.Yes, it's commercial, you buy it.And you have to license it.The instruments you have, it's an unusual line-up, so I'm a trumpet player, I play trumpet for a living, but you have a very unusual line-up of musicians. So you have two flute and horns.Yes, that's right.But they are unusual, unusual for me, in that they have these rotary valves, so different...That's right. These valves are more or less common here in southern Bavaria and in Austria. This kind of valves.Normally you have the one who are... Pistons, yeah, yeah.Pistons, yeah. This is a different style. So it looks like, for those people who don't know, it looks like you're playing them sideways compared to...Because I play straight, and fingers go down, whereas the instruments are kind of on their side.It's a little bit unusual to the area where you're coming. Here in Southern Bavaria, in Austria, more or less, it's common to play this kind of Flügelhorn. And as you say, to Flügelhorn, and then I'm playing the trombone.But you're playing a valve. It doesn't look like a trombone. So my listeners would know of a trombone.We've covered it on the show as having a slide, moving your arm, but you have valves.Yes, that's right. You're right. The area where you can play very high tones and low tones, it's more or less some range, the range from the trombone.But you're right with valves. With valves, yeah. So it doesn't look like a trombone. It looks like a big trumpet.That's right. So you have the two Flügelhorns. You have the trombone, the valve trombone.And you have, I was very surprised to see a harp.Yes, a harp.A harp is, that was not something I was expecting. I was expecting the brass. I was expecting, you also have an accordion.I was expecting to see that. But a harp is very surprising to me.A harp and the accordion? And the last is playing the tuba.Tuba, of course. So you have this brass and harp. And that's a very, I have a duo with a harpist in the UK.But a very different style, of course, more sort of jazz side of things. But it's unusual to see brass and harps. So why are those?I think the most reason is that the musician we are playing, the style, when you're using the harp, it fits the best. Of course, we as having brass instruments, we have to play not too loud. So the mixture is having the right manner.But the harp, for us, it fits the best for the whole music style.It's very interesting, because you talk about the brass not playing too loud, because it's very warm. When people think of brass music, they make them think of it as loud and progressive. Very soft sound.Everything blends together very nicely. And you can hear the harp. No amplification, no microphones, right?If you are playing on very large locations, then we have a microphone for the harp and for the accordion. For the brass instruments, you do not know it normally?No, of course. But in this room, here, you know, to be able to hear the harp, whilst you have four brass planes playing, it's just impressive. It's a beautiful, warm sound.And two Flügelhorns. So for people who don't know, a Flügelhorn is the same length tube as a trumpet, but it's a little bit more mellow, more softer sound.Yes, that's right.So it sounds the same pitch, but it's got a different tone, but a different sound to it.This is how to explain this, more or less, this very traditional style only in this area. You will see this kind of group instruments also in Tyrol, in Austria, but only this area will play in the same range.They are interesting. How did that start?I think it started more or less 150 years ago, because the Individuums would like to have more fun, not just drinking beer, but also having music, and in the history also singers were very common. And nowadays not, but in the past, small groups were assisted by a singer. And the singer sings traditional Bavarian melodies.Interesting.Can you talk to me a little bit about the history of Stammtisch? This is a... because we are in a hall in Munich.I have been reading about this Stammtisch tradition.How to explain Stammtisch tradition? A very German word. Stammtisch more or less comes also from the history, I think, also more than 100 years ago, because of the different groups.How to explain? When you have a... when you are a butcher, when you have a bakery, when you have some other things, then coming from the history, this guy, for example, six butchers built up a group, and they would like to talk to each other about the same things more or less.And then they decided once a week, we will meet us every Monday, for example, at eight o'clock in the Beer Hall, at the Hofbräuhaus at eight o'clock, and then we can discuss about everything which is more or less in our group, discussable.So for business?Yes. Business talks, private talks.I was reading about it, and there is a Stammtisch where musicians can come and everyone plays together. Is this the thing?Yes, more or less. Here in the Hofbräuhaus Beer Hall there are I think more than 50 or 60 Stammtisch groups, and they come in Monday to Sunday more or less. In the evening starting at six o'clock, seven or eight o'clock, and you will find it very often during working days, so Monday to Friday.These are business people talking about business things?Yes, yes, yes.And how does the music interact with that?Sometimes it interacts because if the group for us has funny things to discuss, then sometimes they go to the group and they pay for a very special song, for example ten euros, and then they wish a very special song from this Stammtisch group.I see.Then we play it.Speaking of special songs, I just saw your performance today, which was fantastic, and there is a song that you play, pause it.Can you talk about that?The Prosit more or less is a very easy song, so it means also you can sing very easily the text, and it's a tradition. When you drink your beer, then you drink it with the song.Yeah, so just to explain what happens, you guys stand up.Yes, we stand up, and then there's a signal for the guys. Now, Prosit will come, and then they sing together, and then we drink together.It's beautiful. It's lovely to watch. It's an amazing community moment.And I suppose speaking of community, do you play music outside of this band?Yes.Yeah, so do you play in orchestras?Yes, I play in a brass band, a big brass band with the same instrument.How does the band that you do, and the music that you play here, relate to the rest of the music that you do? Do you think of this as a folk music? Yes.That's right.It's quite different from classical music, but the same techniques.Yes, the same techniques, the same instrument, but this is, as you said, a very special folk music. And on our brass band, we play more or less also modern songs, or brass-related songs made originally for brass bands. So it's really different.Thank you so much for chatting to me. I have one last question, and it's a big question. What is the point of music for you?Ah, the point of music. So, another music question for the last, but I will try. I think the point of music is that outside from the time you have working hours, you have the chance to play with guys where all the guys are loving the music.You forget about maybe not so good things during the working days. And in the end you can do it also when you are very old. And I have tried to give you the impression also to my sons.Today a son from my family was playing with us. The young man playing the second Flügelhorn.Yes, yes.And I carry him, for example, here to tell him this for some hours. You can play. You have a lot of good guys around that.Everything is okay. And you do not have to think about working Monday. And I think that's the point of it.That's beautiful. Thank you so much.That's fantastic.And my thanks once again to Wolfgang King in Munich, outside the Hofbräuhaus, for that lovely interview. What an absolute gent. Really nice guy.And of course, he did the whole interview in Lederhosen. And you can see that beautiful Lederhosen in the video, which is on my Patreon. The full interview is up there in video form, as well as some video highlights from the music that afternoon.So if you head to originofthepieces.com, you can find all of that and sign up to the newsletter and the Patreon and all of that stuff.Now up next, as I mentioned, we're gonna stay in Germany because this is the second phase, if you like, of the Genre Tombola section. The first phase, I guess, is German Beer Hall Music. And this next phase is Tech Trance.This was picked for me by the random genre picker, which I did live in front of an audience at Olso Festival back in the summer. Tech Trance takes its name from techno on the tech side and trance, of course, on the trance side. And these are both categories of EDM, electronic dance music, which is a relatively new term, actually.I think it's only been around for 15 years or so, that overarching term of EDM. So I would say most EDM, not all, of course, but most EDM electronic dance music is characterized by having a very strong importance on the kick drum, which is the bass drum in the drum kit, if you like. But of course, drum kits are not normally used in most EDM drum machines are and synthesizers.So the kick drum can actually sound really different. The different sounds of different kick drums from different drum machines and different samplers and things can really affect the perception of the entire genre. So whole genres can be defined by just having a different kick sound.So to show you what I mean, here's one type of kick drum sound. And here's another. And another.And one more. So actually there's quite a big variation there that you can hear. But the function of the kick drum in most genres of EDM and certainly my understanding of tech trance is to anchor that beat.So often you'll have a what's called four to the floor kick drum. So it would be like boom, boom, boom, boom all the way through. Now I think we can define pretty much all music in the world in terms of tension and release.And that can be done in all sorts of ways. In classical music, for example, it's often done with harmony and how different chords interact. In Indian classical music, it's often done with the rhythmic variation of the melody and these long melodic phrases.Of course, I'm generalizing just going through these things very quickly. But in electronic dance music, EDM and its many sub genres, I think it's characterized largely by dropping out the kick drum. And of course, dropping in and out other elements too.But because the kick drum is so central to so much of this music, if you drop it out, it creates this enormous sense of expectation and anticipation. So that when it comes back in, you've got this thing called the drop, and that's where everyone goes crazy. So you've got this, you might have kick drum to start things and then build into this slightly kind of spacey bit where the kick drum is out and it gets a bit more, there's more reverb and it drifts off into a little bit more of a kind of ambient mood and then bang, the kick drum comes back in and everyone loses themselves in that beat.Now, techno and trance in a lot of ways are very different genres, so I was trying to get my head around how these two overlap and what tech trance is. Trance I think is characterized by some different synthesizer sounds. We haven't got time to go into them in too much depth now, but one's called a saw.That's because the waveform of the synthesizer, so that is the shape of the sound, if you like, the timbre of the sound, if we're talking in more traditional music terms, is very spiky, right? So it's called a sawtooth, so it's a zigzag, basically. And that has got quite a harsh sound, that sounds like this.Particularly when you layer that with lots of sawtooth sounds together and slightly de-tune them. When multiple instruments play together, they have this kind of thickening effect. It might sound slightly out of tune, but what you're mainly hearing, what you're mainly perceiving, is a thick richness, much like a string section in an orchestra.You don't necessarily think of it as out of tune, but those tiny tuning discrepancies mean that your ear hears it as a much bigger, fuller sound than it would if it was just one saw. So here is a big de-tuned saw.And the other thing that characterises a lot of this music is pads. This is sort of the opposite end to the sawtooth lead. The pad is a lot more mellow, a lot more ambient, so you've got this contrast between the quite harsh synthesiser lead and the mellow, washy, ambient pads, with the kick drum and the rest of the drum machine driving through the rhythm underneath.Now the bass is very important, particularly how it interacts with the kick drum. This is something I want to dive into a lot more in future episodes, but a very important aspect of a lot of electronic music, and certainly I noticed it when I was listening to a lot of Tech Trance, is something called sidechaining. Now we don't need to go into the ins and outs of what that is.Essentially what it means is when the kick drum hits, that sound ducks everything else, and that means that the kick drum has real prominence throughout the song. So in other words, it doesn't conflict with the bass frequencies that the bass line is playing, or either pads, or either leads, or either samples, or anything else, because every time that kick drum hits, it's lowering the volume, just briefly, of everything else. So it's like turning down the rest of the mix, but not the kick drum, every time.There's a way you can do that automatically, using something called a compressor, but what that gives us is this sense of pumping, right? Because every time you hear the kick drum hit, it will lower everything else, and then it will come back up very quickly. So that sounds like this.And of course, there's a whole world we could go into there in a lot more detail. But because it's Tech Trance, I also need to talk about techno. So let's park trance for a second and just talk about techno.Now, techno, my understanding of it is that it's got a bit of a harder edge than a lot of trance music. Trance, I guess, is you would think of as more euphoric. Techno can certainly be euphoric too.Both of these styles can be played at raves and nightclubs and stuff, obviously. That's what they're designed for. They're designed for the dance floor, and they're designed to some extent to get you into that euphoric state, often with chemical assistance, of course, in raves and nightclubs.But techno, I think, has got a bit more of a history of having a harder edge. It came partly out of cities like Detroit, but particularly Berlin. I was in Berlin for some work a few weeks ago, and so I went to check out some techno clubs.I thought I wanted to go and immerse myself in techno. Didn't go to any tech trance stuff. There wasn't a lot of that happening while I was there.Or if there was, I had to be up early, so I couldn't rave till 5am. So I didn't make it to any of those gigs, but I did go to some techno jams. Techno has got a really interesting subculture, particularly a culture of making music live.I talked a few episodes ago to Jay Chakravorty about modular synthesizers, these kind of spaceship control panel looking synthesizers without any keyboards normally, with all these knobs and buttons and flashing lights. Techno is often made using these modular synthesizers and of course computers, but physical instruments as well, synthesizers and drum machines that you press buttons and make noises and twiddle knobs, not just on a laptop. And in fact I went to one of these techno jams while I was there, which was absolutely fantastic.Really interesting from the point of view of making live, improvised electronic music. I had a great time, I just want to play a few clips of this techno jam so you can hear how it's interacting. There was an interesting dynamic for the jam session because there were a whole group of people on stage, people coming on and off stage throughout.The music never stopped that, pretty much that force of the floor, relentless beat was there almost the whole time, but someone coming on, someone adding their own synthesized lines to it, another person going off, then someone else coming on, maybe adding their drum machine ideas to it. And so there was this really interesting, organic, evolving textures that were happening live in real time. And of course, with the background, as a jazz musician myself, I'm always really interested in spontaneous music making.So I was fascinated to see it happening in real time with electronic instruments. So here's a little taste of that Techno Jam from Berlin.My thanks to Battle of the Machines, which was an urban spree in Berlin. Great little club, really cool area. I mean, just very Berlin.Really, really cool. Thank you, Berlin. You're great, well done.So yeah, it's a great city for electronic music, and of course, especially techno. That's a very, very brief, broad overview of techno and trance. Of course, I'm sure people will be furious that I've left things out and made all sorts of mistakes, but there we are.I'm not gonna get everything right. I'm just trying to take a bit of a fresh pair of eyes to these genres that mainly I know very little about. So I have made a piece of music vaguely in this genre.Once again, electronic music genres are very specific, and I'm sure that I have absolutely transgressed multiple genres here, partly because I use a sample as the basis of it. Now I've talked about sampling a bit in previous episodes, particularly the UK Hardcore episode a year or so ago when I did a kind of Prodigy-inspired mashup of the podcast theme. But sampling, I guess, isn't a massive feature of a lot of trance, certainly.It's more about the synthesizers, a ditto, techno. But it does come into those genres, I think I'm right in saying sometimes. Sampling is, of course, when you've just basically taken a little excerpt of another tune.People sample from turntables, from records and vinyl. That's one of the ways it started in genres like hip hop. But it is used in these other genres a bit as well.So often you will get a vocal sample, a vocalist who's come in and sung what's called an acapella. So in other words, just singing by themselves. Or they've maybe just sung what's called a top line.So a little melody, sometimes even just a fragment of melody, that's then manipulated and used in various ways throughout these songs. So with apologies to the Tech Trance community and the Bavarian drinking song community. And with a quick reminder to listen out for the various features we've talked about, the synthesizers and all of that.But also particularly the side chaining where we're listening for that kick drum, pumping the rest of the mix, bringing the mix up and down as the kick drum comes in. Here is my Tech Trance version of the traditional drinking song, Prosit, as recorded at the Hofbrauhaus in Munich.So, that was my Tech Trance version of the traditional drinking song, Prosit, as recorded live at the Hofbrauhaus in Munich earlier this year. Now, before I reveal what the next genre that has been randomly assigned to me is, I just want to acknowledge that eagle-eared amongst you may have noticed that I have not looked at Tonasse yet, which is the flamenco genre that was assigned to me quite a while ago now, I think back earlier in the summer. I have not forgotten that. In fact, I have been at something called Womex, which is a world music kind of trade expo and a series of gigs this last week. It's been really interesting and I've spoken to lots of people trying to get to the bottom of who can talk to me about Tonasse because that is one of those genres that I feel like I really need to try and speak to an expert in. So, it is coming.I am working on it. It's quite hard to find someone who I can talk to. It's been quite a challenge, but it's been really interesting along the way.So, Tonasse is coming, don't worry. But meanwhile, here is the next genre that was chosen for me. I did a live podcast recording at a festival back in August called Wild Kind.Really enjoyed that and chose a genre live. So, here we go. Over to Wild Kind back in August.Sometimes people think I cheat it. By the way, if I cheat it, why would I pick Ebo rap from Nigeria? Obviously, I don't...I mean, it was fascinating, but obviously I don't want to be backed into a corner where I have to rap in Ebo. So, anyway, so I have pre-copied and pasted the list into my random list picker. And I'm going to press go and okay.So, in an episode of the podcast in a few weeks time, I will be doing a deep dive into avant-garde metal. You heard it here first. Seriously, if we got any avant-garde metal fans in, because it would be really handy to talk to you.Is it what's that? Your uncle does a podcast about avant-garde metal? Stay, do not go anywhere.I have one on the gig tomorrow, but if I don't see you after the show, I'm going to search you out. Avant-garde metal podcast. Okay, I need to talk to him immediately.Okay, fine. That's good. That's done.So listen out for that on the next episode, unless I get to turn out first, which I may do, working on both simultaneously. Anyway, just remains for me to say thank you so much for listening. Thank you once again to my contributors to this episode, Wolfgang King and Battle Of The Machines, both in Germany, in different places in Germany, Munich and Berlin respectively.And of course, Angelique Kidjo and Hackney Collery Band for the theme song. A quick reminder, get your Wilton's Music Hall tickets for the 30th of November, if you haven't already. There is a special code for podcast listeners, which is Steve Pretty F, or one word.It's an absolutely killer line up with Guy Pratt, Robin Ince, and of course, Theon Cross, Theon Cross, Guy Pratt and Robin Ince on the 30th of November at that live show at Wilton's. Anyway, that's it for now. Once again, sign up for the Patreon, sign up for the mailing list, originofthepieces.com, spread the word, and of course, a nice review is always helpful.Thanks again for listening and for all your support, and I'll speak to you hopefully in a couple of weeks. You know what it's like. Bye!